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Тема |
Ами той Толкин си го е казал!!! [re: Seaborn] |
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Автор |
Seaborn (Aeronnen) |
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Публикувано | 23.08.04 12:39 |
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Трябва да направим едно групово четене на писмата на Толкин. Може да ни е от огромна полза :)). Ами сега се поразтърсих и познайте какво намерих. Писъмце на Толкин, което обяснява доста неща. За изкушението, за изкуплението и т.н. Лорета, за това май трябваше в началото да се сетим :)). Четете и се радвайте:
"191 From a letter to Miss J. Bum (draft) 26 July 1956
If you re-read all the passages dealing with Frodo and the Ring, I think you will see that not only was it quite impossible for him to surrender the Ring, in act or will, especially at its point of maximum power, but that this failure was adumbrated from far back. He was honoured because he had accepted the burden voluntarily, and had then done all that was within his utmost physical and mental strength to do. He (and the Cause) were saved – by Mercy : by the supreme value and efficacy of Pity and forgiveness of injury.
Corinthians I x. 12-131 may not at first sight seem to fit – unless 'bearing temptation' is taken to mean resisting it while still a free agent in normal command of the will. I think rather of the mysterious last petitions of the Lord's Prayer: Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. A petition against something that cannot happen is unmeaning. There exists the possibility of being placed in positions beyond one's power. In which case (as I believe) salvation from ruin will depend on something apparently unconnected: the general sanctity (and humility and mercy) of the sacrificial person. I did not 'arrange' the deliverance in this case: it again follows the logic of the story. (Gollum had had his chance of repentance, and of returning generosity with love; and had fallen off the knife-edge.) In the case of those who now issue from prison 'brainwashed', broken, or insane, praising their torturers, no such immediate deliverance is as a rule to be seen. But we can at least judge them by the will and intentions with which they entered the Sammath Naur; and not demand impossible feats of will, which could only happen in stories unconcerned with real moral and mental probability.
No, Frodo 'failed'. It is possible that once the ring was destroyed he had little recollection of the last scene. But one must face the fact: the power of Evil in the world is not finally resistible by incarnate creatures, however 'good'; and the Writer of the Story is not one of us.
I am afraid I have the same feeling – I have been forced to publish up-side-down or backwards; and after the grand crash (and the end of visibly incarnate Evil) before the Dominion of Men (or simple History) to which it all led up the mythological and elvish legends of the Elder Days will not be quite the same. But perhaps read, eventually, from beginning to end in the right order, both parts may gain. I am not writing the Silmarillion, which was long ago written; but trying to find a way and order in which to make the legends and annals publishable. And I have a dreadful lot of other work to do as well."
"By chance, I have just had another letter regarding the failure of Frodo. Very few seem even to have observed it. But following the logic of the plot, it was clearly inevitable, as an event. And surely it is a more significant and real event than a mere 'fairy-story' ending in which the hero is indomitable? It is possible for the good, even the saintly, to be subjected to a power of evil which is too great for them to overcome – in themselves. In this case the cause (not the 'hero') was triumphant, because by the exercise of pity, mercy, and forgiveness of injury, a situation was produced in which all was redressed and disaster averted. Gandalf certainly foresaw this. See Vol. I p. 68-9.1 Of course, he did not mean to say that one must be merciful, for it may prove useful later – it would not then be mercy or pity, which are only truly present when contrary to prudence. Not ours to plan ! But we are assured that we must be ourselves extravagantly generous, if we are to hope for the extravagant generosity which the slightest easing of, or escape from, the consequences of our own follies and errors represents. And that mercy does sometimes occur in this life. "
Не посмях да подчертая нищо, защото всичко е важно. Колкото до спора все пак си личи ясно от смисъла, че Фродо не е обсебен, а просто над волята му е надделяно. Да- било е неизбежно, Фродо е герой, но аз това не го отричам, напротив, казах го 100 пъти. А и за спасението, откъдето тръгна цялата работа, мисля, че е по-близо до моята теза. Но като гледам още доста има да се изпише... :))
Imagine...!
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За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
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Seaborn
| 21.08.04 18:32 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Бeзцeнни
| 21.08.04 22:34 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Roverandom3
| 22.08.04 10:56 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Бeзцeнни
| 22.08.04 20:53 |
Виждам в бъдещето!
| Loretta
| 22.08.04 02:09 |
Re: Виждам в бъдещето!
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 09:51 |
Re: Виждам в бъдещето!
| Бeзцeнни
| 22.08.04 10:24 |
Re: Виждам в бъдещето!
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 10:51 |
Re: Виждам в бъдещето!
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 12:03 |
нова стълба? :))))
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 14:25 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Estel
| 22.08.04 15:23 |
мерси
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 15:53 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Loretta
| 22.08.04 16:49 |
Въпрос.
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 17:16 |
отговор
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 17:33 |
Отговор.
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 17:49 |
likewise:)
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 18:01 |
It's not over...
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 18:14 |
ok, its over :)
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 18:31 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Бeзцeнни
| 22.08.04 21:18 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Paganel
| 23.08.04 10:05 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Бeзцeнни
| 23.08.04 11:45 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Paganel
| 23.08.04 12:29 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Бeзцeнни
| 23.08.04 12:47 |
уф да
| Paganel
| 23.08.04 13:00 |
Re: ok, its over :)
| Seaborn
| 23.08.04 12:36 |
хипноза
| Paganel
| 23.08.04 12:46 |
гласът на Саруман (офтопик)
| Loretta
| 23.08.04 14:37 |
зъл ли е изборът на Фродо?
| Loretta
| 22.08.04 18:23 |
Re: зъл ли е изборът на Фродо?
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 18:41 |
гррр
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 18:50 |
Re: зъл ли е изборът на Фродо?
| Бeзцeнни
| 22.08.04 21:43 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 18:05 |
bane
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 18:17 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Loretta
| 22.08.04 18:37 |
trickery
| firefox
| 02.09.04 18:36 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 16:39 |
Re: нова стълба? :))))
| Paganel
| 22.08.04 17:29 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Roverandom3
| 22.08.04 11:02 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Estel
| 22.08.04 12:11 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 16:58 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Estel
| 22.08.04 19:26 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Seaborn
| 22.08.04 19:38 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Estel
| 22.08.04 19:58 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Бeзцeнни
| 22.08.04 21:48 |
Ами той Толкин си го е казал!!!
| Seaborn
| 23.08.04 12:39 |
на ръба на пропастта
| Loretta
| 23.08.04 15:07 |
Re: на ръба на пропастта
| Seaborn
| 23.08.04 17:50 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Amarthil
| 02.09.04 12:20 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Seaborn
| 02.09.04 16:48 |
Re: За Фродо, Пръстенa, Злото и хипнозата...
| Amarthil
| 03.09.04 19:25 |
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