ufff macedonec
3 отговора
204 прегледа
ufff macedonec
Проблема се корени в това че навремето всички така наречени конни народи идващи в Европа от степите бяха обявени за тюрски. В последствие се оказа че това не е вярно, но въпреки това прилагателното "тюрски" не беше махнато. Така хора, които нямат нищо общо както във външния си вид, така и във езика попаднаха под едно общо име - тюрки.
Istoriata e prosta:
V nachaloto na veka ima nqkolko teorii za proizhoda na bulgarite. Nalaga se tyurskata teoria. Tq e deka prabulgarite, madjarite(ungarcite), kumanite, hunite, hazarite, pechenegite, alanite, uzite i vopshte vsichki konni narodi sa tyrski plemena. Tazi teoria makar i neverna se razpostranqva kakto vo bulgaria taka i posveta, zatova i sega na mnogo mesta mojesh da namerish deka prabulgarite sa bili tjursko pleme i sa govorili tyurski ezik. V posledstvie se okazva tazi teoria napulno neverna. Madjarite(Ungarcite) se okazvat Ugri. Alanite - iztochnoiransko pleme. I makar che drevnite vizantijski letopisi da opisvat prabulgarite kato narod naj-blizak do alanite, nikoj dulgi godini ne obrushta vnimanie na tova.
Greshkata ide ot tam che vizantijskite hronisti mnogo chesto opisvat edin narod s imeto na drug koito im prilicha. Sled nahluvaneto na hunite te uvlichat sus sebesi i drugi narodi. V armiata na hunite vlizat i nekoi bulgarski plemena. Hronistite obache pishat za vsichki narodi koi sa sus hunite - huni. Po kusno hunite se izteglqt v azia sled smurta na Atila. Tqhnoto mqsto zaemat bulgarite koito produljavat atakite sreshto Vizantia. Hronistite gi narichat osven sus sobstvenoto im ime "bulgari" i s tova na predishnia konen narod koi gi atakuval "huni". S imeto "huni" sa bili pisani i avarite. Po kusno imeto huni otpada ot nazvanieto na bulgarite i se lepva na sledvashtite konni narodi koi idat kaj Vizantia da grabat - madjarite (ungarcite). Obshto vzeto za grcite vsichki narodi koi sa na kone i sa grabitelski nastroeni kam teh sa huni - po imeto na purvia konen narod koi se poqvil v evropata. Zatova i na istoricharite im e trugno da opredelqt v nachaloto koj narod ot kakuv proizhod e.
Makar vsichki fakti: che prabulgarite za razlika ot hunite sa bili v riznici ot malki metalni krucheta (za razlika ot hunite koi sa nemali riznici), zemedelieto koeto napulno lipsva vo hunite i ne na posledno mqsto storeja na gradove, koeto susto lipsva pri hunite) - tyrskata teoria mnogo bavno otmirashe, a i prekaleno mnogo veche istoricheski knigi ima deka pishe che bulgarite sa tyurki i horata prepisvat li prepisvat ot tam. Purvi rusite razbirat deka bulgarite ne sa tyurski narod i ruskite istorichari kazvat tova na bulgarskite, no minava mnogo vreme dokato neshtata se izqsnqt, a prez tova vreme veche po zel svet nasekade pishat deka sa bili tyursko pleme. Sega shte trqbvat mnogo usilia za da se promeni tova.
Sega ot vsichki nqkoga poqvqva li se teorii za proizhoda na prabulgarite, obshto 5 na broj:
1.Tyurska
2.Ugro-Finska
3.Tatarska
4.Iztochnoiranska
5.Smesena - Iztochnoiranska + Tyurska s preves na iztochnoiranskia element
Sa ostanali samo 2:Iztochnoiranska i Smesenata.
Makar vse oshte da se spori za tochnia proizhod na prabulgarite - dali sa istochnoiransko pleme ili smeseno iztochnoiransko i tyursko pleme s preves na iztochnoiranskia element v nego edno e qsno - prabulgarite ne sa bili nito chisto tyursko pleme nito mongoli.
Shte trqbva da mine mnogo vreme obache dokato budat promeneni tonovete knigi v koito veche pishe che bulgarite sa tyurki.
Ajde predi ad sednesh da mi otgovarqsh budi taka dobur da prochetesh vsichko koeto sum pisal po tazi tema i togava da komentirash :
[линк]
Prijatno chetene
Istoriata e prosta:
V nachaloto na veka ima nqkolko teorii za proizhoda na bulgarite. Nalaga se tyurskata teoria. Tq e deka prabulgarite, madjarite(ungarcite), kumanite, hunite, hazarite, pechenegite, alanite, uzite i vopshte vsichki konni narodi sa tyrski plemena. Tazi teoria makar i neverna se razpostranqva kakto vo bulgaria taka i posveta, zatova i sega na mnogo mesta mojesh da namerish deka prabulgarite sa bili tjursko pleme i sa govorili tyurski ezik. V posledstvie se okazva tazi teoria napulno neverna. Madjarite(Ungarcite) se okazvat Ugri. Alanite - iztochnoiransko pleme. I makar che drevnite vizantijski letopisi da opisvat prabulgarite kato narod naj-blizak do alanite, nikoj dulgi godini ne obrushta vnimanie na tova.
Greshkata ide ot tam che vizantijskite hronisti mnogo chesto opisvat edin narod s imeto na drug koito im prilicha. Sled nahluvaneto na hunite te uvlichat sus sebesi i drugi narodi. V armiata na hunite vlizat i nekoi bulgarski plemena. Hronistite obache pishat za vsichki narodi koi sa sus hunite - huni. Po kusno hunite se izteglqt v azia sled smurta na Atila. Tqhnoto mqsto zaemat bulgarite koito produljavat atakite sreshto Vizantia. Hronistite gi narichat osven sus sobstvenoto im ime "bulgari" i s tova na predishnia konen narod koi gi atakuval "huni". S imeto "huni" sa bili pisani i avarite. Po kusno imeto huni otpada ot nazvanieto na bulgarite i se lepva na sledvashtite konni narodi koi idat kaj Vizantia da grabat - madjarite (ungarcite). Obshto vzeto za grcite vsichki narodi koi sa na kone i sa grabitelski nastroeni kam teh sa huni - po imeto na purvia konen narod koi se poqvil v evropata. Zatova i na istoricharite im e trugno da opredelqt v nachaloto koj narod ot kakuv proizhod e.
Makar vsichki fakti: che prabulgarite za razlika ot hunite sa bili v riznici ot malki metalni krucheta (za razlika ot hunite koi sa nemali riznici), zemedelieto koeto napulno lipsva vo hunite i ne na posledno mqsto storeja na gradove, koeto susto lipsva pri hunite) - tyrskata teoria mnogo bavno otmirashe, a i prekaleno mnogo veche istoricheski knigi ima deka pishe che bulgarite sa tyurki i horata prepisvat li prepisvat ot tam. Purvi rusite razbirat deka bulgarite ne sa tyurski narod i ruskite istorichari kazvat tova na bulgarskite, no minava mnogo vreme dokato neshtata se izqsnqt, a prez tova vreme veche po zel svet nasekade pishat deka sa bili tyursko pleme. Sega shte trqbvat mnogo usilia za da se promeni tova.
Sega ot vsichki nqkoga poqvqva li se teorii za proizhoda na prabulgarite, obshto 5 na broj:
1.Tyurska
2.Ugro-Finska
3.Tatarska
4.Iztochnoiranska
5.Smesena - Iztochnoiranska + Tyurska s preves na iztochnoiranskia element
Sa ostanali samo 2:Iztochnoiranska i Smesenata.
Makar vse oshte da se spori za tochnia proizhod na prabulgarite - dali sa istochnoiransko pleme ili smeseno iztochnoiransko i tyursko pleme s preves na iztochnoiranskia element v nego edno e qsno - prabulgarite ne sa bili nito chisto tyursko pleme nito mongoli.
Shte trqbva da mine mnogo vreme obache dokato budat promeneni tonovete knigi v koito veche pishe che bulgarite sa tyurki.
Ajde predi ad sednesh da mi otgovarqsh budi taka dobur da prochetesh vsichko koeto sum pisal po tazi tema i togava da komentirash :
[линк]
Prijatno chetene
Bozhidar Dimitrov: "the Bulgarians' land of origin
Bozhidar Dimitrov: "the Bulgarians' land of origin was...Altai"
Extract from the book "Bulgaria Illustrated History"
by Bojidar Dimitrov
The origin and the homeland of the Bulgarian tribes have been an
object of both past and present study and research.…The scarcity
of clear and reliable sources could hardly be expected to be made up
for.
There is still one fool-proof fact which is that the Bulgarians' land
of origin was in the highland regions of Altai in Siberia.
[линк]
Their language is related to the so-called Turko-Altai group [
ALTAIC=TURKO-MONGOLIC GROUP (AND THE ALTAI MOUNTAINS ARE ALSO IN
MONGOLIA), THUS REAL BULGARS/BOLGARS/BULGARIANS WERE/ARE TURKO-
MONGOLS!!! BALKAN BULGAR-IANS ARE MOSTLY FANATICAL WANABE TURKO-
MONGOLS - TATAROMANI!!!]. In other words, the Bulgarians belong to
the same ethnolingual group as the Huns, the Avars, the Pechenegs and
the Cumans, i.e., the peoples, parts of which are to flow into the
Bulgarian nation between the 7th and 14th centuries.
Extract from the book "Bulgaria Illustrated History" by Bojidar
Dimitrov, PhD.,
© Maria Nikolova, Translator
Published by BORIANA Publishing House, Sofia,Bulgaria
Extract from the book "Bulgaria Illustrated History"
by Bojidar Dimitrov
The origin and the homeland of the Bulgarian tribes have been an
object of both past and present study and research.…The scarcity
of clear and reliable sources could hardly be expected to be made up
for.
There is still one fool-proof fact which is that the Bulgarians' land
of origin was in the highland regions of Altai in Siberia.
[линк]
Their language is related to the so-called Turko-Altai group [
ALTAIC=TURKO-MONGOLIC GROUP (AND THE ALTAI MOUNTAINS ARE ALSO IN
MONGOLIA), THUS REAL BULGARS/BOLGARS/BULGARIANS WERE/ARE TURKO-
MONGOLS!!! BALKAN BULGAR-IANS ARE MOSTLY FANATICAL WANABE TURKO-
MONGOLS - TATAROMANI!!!]. In other words, the Bulgarians belong to
the same ethnolingual group as the Huns, the Avars, the Pechenegs and
the Cumans, i.e., the peoples, parts of which are to flow into the
Bulgarian nation between the 7th and 14th centuries.
Extract from the book "Bulgaria Illustrated History" by Bojidar
Dimitrov, PhD.,
© Maria Nikolova, Translator
Published by BORIANA Publishing House, Sofia,Bulgaria
в отговор на was Altai - Mongolia
#4
ANNUS MUNDI 6171 (SEPTEMBER 1, 679—AUGUST 31, 680)
THE CHRONICLE OF THEOPHANES
ANNUS MUNDI 6171 (SEPTEMBER 1, 679—AUGUST 31, 680)
11. 24. 2.
In this year—the first indiction—Muawiyah the chief counselor of the Saracens died on the sixth of Artemisios.[121] He had been a general for twenty years, then caliph for twenty-four. His son Yezid succeeded him.
Also, the Bulgarian people attacked Thrace at this time. It is necessary to discuss the ancient history of the Onogondur Bulgars and the Kotrigurs. In the area on the north side of the Black Sea (in the Sea of Azov) there enters a great river called the Atel, which descends from the Ocean through the land of the Sarmatians. The Don leads into it; the Don itself springs from the Iberian gates in the Caucasus mountains. From the mingling of the Don and the Atel (which 7 branches before the Sea of Azov) comes the Kouphis River,[122] which delivers itself up at the end of the Black Sea near Nekropela at the cape known as the Ram’s Face. Sea and river are one and the same beyond the Sea of Azov, which leads into the Black Sea through the territory of the Cimmerian Bosporos[123] The mourzoulin and other fish like it are caught in this river.
In the area east of the lake lie Phanagouria and the Hebrews living there.[124] The ancient Great Bulgaria stretches from the Sea of Azov along the Kouphis River, where the xyston, a Bulgarian fish, is caught. The Kotrigurs, who are related to the Bulgars, also live there.
During the period when Constantine was in the west, Kroba-tos, the lord of Bulgaria and the Kotrigurs, died. He left behind five sons, not at all imagining they would give up living by each other: for they were the masters of all they surveyed and were slaves to no other people. But a little while after his death these five sons separated from one another, along with the folk subject to each of them.
The first son, called Batbaian, kept the injunction of his father and has remained in his ancestral lands until the present day. The second brother, called Kotragos, crossed the Don River and settled across from the first. The fourth and fifth brothers crossed the river Ister (that is, the Danube). One came to the land of the Avars in Pannonia, was subjected by the Avar Khagan, and remained there with his forces; the other reached the five cities by Ravenna and came under the control of Christians.
121. May 6.
122. A river north of the Danube, which flows into the Black Sea.
123. The region of the Crimea or Cherson (see above, note 81).
124. Phanagouria (the medieval Russian Tmutarakan and modern Taman) is near the eastern shore of the Strait of Kerch, which connects the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea. Mention of Hebrews in this Khazar-dominated area is particularly interesting, because later in the eighth century the Khazar nobility converted from paganism toJudaism. They may well have been trying to enjoy the benefits of a high religion without coming under the cultural influence either of Byzantium or the Arabs.
Now the third brother, called Asparukh, crossed the Dnieper and 358 the Dniester and reached the Oglos[125] (these rivers are north of theDanube), settling between them and the Danube. He thought the location secure and invincible from all sides, for it was marshy ahead and surrounded by rivers in other directions. It provided his people, who had been weakened by their division, relief from their enemies.
After the Bulgars had been divided into five parts and thus dimin-ished, the great Khazar people came from the far interior of Berzilia in first Sarmatia and became the masters of the whole northern coast of the Black Sea. They made Batbaian, the first brother and ruler of first Bulgaria, their subject and have taken tribute from him[126] until the present.
The Emperor Constantine was galled to learn that a foul, unclean tribe was living between the Danube and the Oglos, and that it had sallied forth to ravage the land near the Danube (that is, the land which is now ruled by the Bulgars, but then was held by Christians). He ordered all the thematic armies to cross over into Thrace, equipped an expeditionary force, and moved against the Bulgars by land and sea, attempting to dislodge them by force. He marshalled his army on the land by the Oglos and the Danube, anchoring his ships at a nearby promontory.
When the Bulgars saw his battle-line’s numbers and density, they despaired of their salvation. They took refuge in the fastness which has been mentioned and, for the first three or four days, did not dare go outside this stronghold of theirs. But when the Romans did not join battle because of the swamp, the disgusting tribe guessed their empty vanity, regained its strength, and grew more courageous.
Since the Emperor was suffering severely from gout, he had to withdraw to Mesembria for his usual baths with five warships and men friendly to him. He left behind his generals and army, ordering them to use their lances to drag the Bulgars out of their stronghold, and to attack them if they came out. If not, then his men were to besiege them and hold them in their defensive position. However, the cavalry spread…..”
125. The Oglos (or, as it is sometimes read, the Onglos) may in fact not be a river north of the Danube. The other possibility is that it may be the wedge-shaped strip of land between the Pruth and Seret Rivers north of the Danube. If the latter interpretation is correct, the word is to be derived from the Latin angulu.c: “angle.”
126. And, by extension, from the people he ruled.
ANNUS MUNDI 6171 (SEPTEMBER 1, 679—AUGUST 31, 680)
11. 24. 2.
In this year—the first indiction—Muawiyah the chief counselor of the Saracens died on the sixth of Artemisios.[121] He had been a general for twenty years, then caliph for twenty-four. His son Yezid succeeded him.
Also, the Bulgarian people attacked Thrace at this time. It is necessary to discuss the ancient history of the Onogondur Bulgars and the Kotrigurs. In the area on the north side of the Black Sea (in the Sea of Azov) there enters a great river called the Atel, which descends from the Ocean through the land of the Sarmatians. The Don leads into it; the Don itself springs from the Iberian gates in the Caucasus mountains. From the mingling of the Don and the Atel (which 7 branches before the Sea of Azov) comes the Kouphis River,[122] which delivers itself up at the end of the Black Sea near Nekropela at the cape known as the Ram’s Face. Sea and river are one and the same beyond the Sea of Azov, which leads into the Black Sea through the territory of the Cimmerian Bosporos[123] The mourzoulin and other fish like it are caught in this river.
In the area east of the lake lie Phanagouria and the Hebrews living there.[124] The ancient Great Bulgaria stretches from the Sea of Azov along the Kouphis River, where the xyston, a Bulgarian fish, is caught. The Kotrigurs, who are related to the Bulgars, also live there.
During the period when Constantine was in the west, Kroba-tos, the lord of Bulgaria and the Kotrigurs, died. He left behind five sons, not at all imagining they would give up living by each other: for they were the masters of all they surveyed and were slaves to no other people. But a little while after his death these five sons separated from one another, along with the folk subject to each of them.
The first son, called Batbaian, kept the injunction of his father and has remained in his ancestral lands until the present day. The second brother, called Kotragos, crossed the Don River and settled across from the first. The fourth and fifth brothers crossed the river Ister (that is, the Danube). One came to the land of the Avars in Pannonia, was subjected by the Avar Khagan, and remained there with his forces; the other reached the five cities by Ravenna and came under the control of Christians.
121. May 6.
122. A river north of the Danube, which flows into the Black Sea.
123. The region of the Crimea or Cherson (see above, note 81).
124. Phanagouria (the medieval Russian Tmutarakan and modern Taman) is near the eastern shore of the Strait of Kerch, which connects the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea. Mention of Hebrews in this Khazar-dominated area is particularly interesting, because later in the eighth century the Khazar nobility converted from paganism toJudaism. They may well have been trying to enjoy the benefits of a high religion without coming under the cultural influence either of Byzantium or the Arabs.
Now the third brother, called Asparukh, crossed the Dnieper and 358 the Dniester and reached the Oglos[125] (these rivers are north of theDanube), settling between them and the Danube. He thought the location secure and invincible from all sides, for it was marshy ahead and surrounded by rivers in other directions. It provided his people, who had been weakened by their division, relief from their enemies.
After the Bulgars had been divided into five parts and thus dimin-ished, the great Khazar people came from the far interior of Berzilia in first Sarmatia and became the masters of the whole northern coast of the Black Sea. They made Batbaian, the first brother and ruler of first Bulgaria, their subject and have taken tribute from him[126] until the present.
The Emperor Constantine was galled to learn that a foul, unclean tribe was living between the Danube and the Oglos, and that it had sallied forth to ravage the land near the Danube (that is, the land which is now ruled by the Bulgars, but then was held by Christians). He ordered all the thematic armies to cross over into Thrace, equipped an expeditionary force, and moved against the Bulgars by land and sea, attempting to dislodge them by force. He marshalled his army on the land by the Oglos and the Danube, anchoring his ships at a nearby promontory.
When the Bulgars saw his battle-line’s numbers and density, they despaired of their salvation. They took refuge in the fastness which has been mentioned and, for the first three or four days, did not dare go outside this stronghold of theirs. But when the Romans did not join battle because of the swamp, the disgusting tribe guessed their empty vanity, regained its strength, and grew more courageous.
Since the Emperor was suffering severely from gout, he had to withdraw to Mesembria for his usual baths with five warships and men friendly to him. He left behind his generals and army, ordering them to use their lances to drag the Bulgars out of their stronghold, and to attack them if they came out. If not, then his men were to besiege them and hold them in their defensive position. However, the cavalry spread…..”
125. The Oglos (or, as it is sometimes read, the Onglos) may in fact not be a river north of the Danube. The other possibility is that it may be the wedge-shaped strip of land between the Pruth and Seret Rivers north of the Danube. If the latter interpretation is correct, the word is to be derived from the Latin angulu.c: “angle.”
126. And, by extension, from the people he ruled.