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Айде да си мерим мрднатоста?
Iceberg
Unregistered User
(5/2/04 6:08 pm)
Reply The Balkan peoples are of mixed ethnic origins
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Modern Macedonians =
Slavs +
Slavicized(Macedonians) +
Slavicized(Hellenized(Macedonians)) +
Slavicized(Latinized(Macedonians)) +
Slavicized(Latinized(Hellenized(Macedonians))) +
Slavicized(others)
Legend: Macedonians = indigenous inhabitants of what is known as the Roman province of Macedonia, comprising Macedonians, Paeonians, Dardanians and others
Modern Greeks =
Hellenes +
Hellenized(Slavs) +
Hellenized(Albanians) +
Hellenized(Balkaners) +
Hellenized(Latinized(Balkaners)) +
Hellenized(Slavicized(Balkaners)) +
Hellenized(others)
ARGUMENTS ON THE MODERN MACEDONIANS' ETHNIC ORIGIN
First, the modern Macedonians are not likely to have absorbed significant genetic influx from Bulgars, Hellenes, Turks and Albanians. Let us argue on this.
I. After the establishment of Asparukh's Danube Bulgaria, the Bulgars were mainly concentrated around their medieval capital Preslav and generally in the area of Dobrudja in the nort-east of Bulgaria (where even today racially exists semi-oriental Turanid type, descended from original Turkic Bulgars) . If any Slavs mixed with Bulgars, that would be the Slavs from what is today north-east Bulgaria. The Bulgars did not significantly mix even with the geographically closest Slavs -- those from Thrace and Mysia. The Bulgarians in these areas hardly have any mongoloid features. But, why mongoloid features? We shall find this out right after the block of commercials .
According to Britannica:
"Altaic languages is a group of more than 50 languages, comprising the Turkic, Mongolian, and Manchu-Tungus subfamilies. Altaic languages are spoken across Eurasia by more than 140 million people (the overwhelming majority of whom speak Turkic languages)."
Thus, Turkic, Mongolian and Manchu-Tungus belong to the Altai language group. Is there any genetic relationship along with the language kinship within the Altaic group? Let us see what Britannica further says on this issue:
"Most scholars consider Altaic itself to be a family, of proven genetic relationship, though a minority attribute similarities in the languages to borrowings and areal convergence."
So, Britannica says that most scholars agree that Altaic peoples are genetically related as well, i.e., they have common genetic ancestors.
Let us see how many Mongoloid Turkic peoples are there today:
1. CIA factbook says there are 20 million Uzbeks in Uzbekistan today.
2. CIA factbook says there are 8.5 million Kazakhs in Kazakhstan today.
3. About 8.2 million Uyghurs in China.
4. CIA factbook says there are 2.5 million Kyrgyz in Kyrgyzstan today.
5. In Tatarstan, there are 1.8 million Tatars today.
6. In Chuvashiya, there are 1 million Chuvash today.
There are more mongoloid Turkic peoples, e.g., those living outside the countries. Let us sum them up:
20 + 8.5 + 8.2 + 2.5 + 1.8 + 1 = 42 million.
Hence, there are at least 42 million Mongoloid Turkic peoples today.
Conclusion: according to most scholars, the Turkic peoples make up an ethnolingual family together with the Mongols. Since millions of Turkic peoples in central Asia today are mongoloid, the conclusion is that originally the Turkic peoples were mongoloid as well.
On the origin of the Bulgars, Britannica says:
"The Bulgars probably originated as a Turkic tribe of Central Asia and arrived in the European steppe west of the Volga River with the Huns about AD 370; retreating with the Huns, they resettled about 460 in an arc of country north and..."
Conclusion: the Bulgars of Asparukh who invaded the north-east area of the Balkans were Mongoloids.
The Bulgars conquered much of the Balkan lands including Macedonia, Serbia, Romania, etc. But, their mixing with the Macedonians is most likely to have been negligible. Since the Bulgars were most likely originally mongoloid, and the modern Macedonians are not mongoloid, hence, the fraction of Bulgar blood in them is negligible. The same is goes for the Serbs who were under the Turkic Bulgar slavery.
II. Greeks were minority in the territory of what is known as the Roman province of Macedonia. The Macedonians may have been hellenized or latinized, but the evidence from the ancient Hellenic and Roman historians suggests that they were not Hellenes. For example, see Plutarch, Arrian etc.
III. The original Turks were also a Turkic tribe, and mongoloid people. Hence, no significant Turkish blood in the modern Macedonians.
The modern Turks are predominantly Caucausoid due to the heavy mixing with the indigenous populations of Asia Minor as well as the "blood tax" (in Turkish "harach"). Namely, the Turks were taking by force small children from the Balkan populations and turkicized them. Today, you could find even blond Turks due to the "harach". Also, you know that a huge number of Turkish speaking christians were migrated into Macedonia from Turkey with the population exchange from the 1920s. Were these Turkish speaking christians Turkicized orthodox people or christianized Turks? Most probably, these Turkish speaking christians were Turkicized indigenous asia minor people (Greeks, Lydians etc.).
IV. If one refers to some Dardanian tribes as Albanians (which is incorrect, assuming their Illyrian origin), then they lived in what is today north-western part of R. Macedonia. That territory is only a 10% of the total territory of Macedonia. Thus, some small percentage of Dardanian genes in the modern Macedonians is likely.
Actually, it is more likely that Albanians have more Slavic blood than the Macedonians have Albanian blood because the whole of Albania was flooded by Slavs. Later on, the Slavs of Albania got assimilated by the Albanians.
V. Majority of scholars agree that in ancient times (before Philip's and Alexander's conquest on north), what is known as Roman province of Macedonia, was predominantly inhabited by the following ethnicities (I will use the terms Vardar, Aegean and Pirin Macedonia):
1. 20-30% of Vardar Macedonia was inhabited by Dardanians.
2. 50-60% of Vardar Macedonia was inhabited by Paeonians.
3. 20-30% of Vardar Macedonia was inhabited by Macedonians.
4. Pirin Macedonia was inhabited partly by Paeonians, partly by Macedonians.
5. 80-90% of Aegean Macedonia was inhabited by Macedonians.
6. 5-10% of Aegean Macedonia was inhabited by Paeonians (north).
7. 5-10% of Aegean Macedonia was inhabited by Thracians (east).
Consequently:
1. Macedonians inhabited about 50-60% of what is known as Roman province of Macedonia.
2. Paeonians inhabited about 20-30% of what is known as Roman province of Macedonia.
3. Dardanians inhabited about 5-10% of what is known as Roman province of Macedonia.
4. Thracians inhabited up to 5% of what is known as Roman province of Macedonia.
Furthermore, it is well known that the (Macedonian) Slavs settled in what was then the Roman province of Macedonia. At first, the Slavs were pagans and hostile to the indigenous populations, but as soon as they started accepting christianity and the Byzantine civilization, the intermingling did not have to wait anymore. This province was mainly inhabited by the Macedonians. Hence, the Slavs mixed mostly with the Macedonians. There were also the Paeonians, who may have been hellenized or latinized by that time. They also took part in the Macedonian ethnogenesis.
Hence:
Modern Macedonians =
Slavs +
Slavicized(Macedonians) +
Slavicized(Hellenized(Macedonians)) +
Slavicized(Latinized(Macedonians)) +
Slavicized(Latinized(Hellenized(Macedonians))) +
Slavicized(others)
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Ице [re: lceberg]
