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Клубове Дирене Регистрация Кой е тук Въпроси Списък Купувам / Продавам 03:58 17.06.24 
Политика, Свят
   >> Македония
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Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: jingiby]  
Автор komitaO3 (български)
Публикувано20.12.19 19:39



Уникален материал. Благодаря за припомнянето. Еех, какъв форум беше...



Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: TheGiverAndTheTaker]  
Автор komitaO3 (български)
Публикувано21.12.19 11:23



Како се пише "Граматика на македонскиот јазик"
Се зема "Граматика на българския език" од Љубомир Андрејчин.
Се препишува основниот дел.
Се бира делот кадешто се опишани македонските дијалекти.
Се препишува комлетно со се ПРИМЕРИТЕ.
Се пише насловот "Граматика на македонскиот јазик"
Се подпишува
- Блаже Љамевич Соколович Конески -

Редактирано от komitaO3 на 21.12.19 11:19.



Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: komitaO3]  
Автор jingiby (АнТИКВИзатор)
Публикувано23.12.19 07:50



Направих го на

.



Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: jingiby]  
Автор komitaO3 (български)
Публикувано23.12.19 08:41



Браво джинги.



Тема Re: Подобен казуснови [re: TheGiverAndTheTaker]  
Автор goga (изследовател)
Публикувано25.12.19 10:19



Вчера случайно се запознах и си говорих с нащенец, който 20 години е живял във Валенсия, купил си е там къща, сега е пенсионер и половината време е в БГ, другата половина - си наглежда имота в Испания. Питах го за валенсианския език и той ми сподели, че на няколко пъти се е натъквал на спорове по местни радиостанции и тв-канали кой език предхожда другия - валенсианският или каталунският. За валенсианеца най-голямата обида било да му кажеш, че говори каталунски, макар че според лингвистите действително валенсианският е диалект на каталунския и от него е възникнал.

Не сме измислили топлата вода.

Редактирано от goga на 25.12.19 10:24.



Тема Re: Подобен казуснови [re: goga]  
Автор tormentor (мъчител)
Публикувано27.12.19 14:28



лингвистите ги считат за един и същ език /явно няма много платени с югодинари типове като разни фридмановци, лунтовци и подобни/.
в уикито има статия за валенсианската форма на анти-каталонски национализъм:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaverism

разбира се, всичко изглежда много по-цивилизовано в сравнение с бесния антибългаризъм и бруталните фалшификации на македонизма.

кажи му северномакедонец вместо да го обиждаш



Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: jingiby]  
Автор tormentor (мъчител)
Публикувано30.12.19 00:36



един много бърз и много буквален превод направен на прима виста и то върху превод взет направо от гугъл транслейт, който съм пооправил леко смислено и граматически:


The Aegean Macedonian literary norm was a literary norm of the Bulgarian language , codified in the period after the Tito-Stalin split, and used during the 1950s. It was taught among the so-called children refugees who fled Greece after the end of the Greek Civil War (1946 - 1949) and were settled in various Eastern European countries. The norm was very close to the Bulgarian literary language and was based on the dialects of southwestern Macedonia : Lerin , Kostur and Voden areas . The norm used the Bulgarian alphabet.
History [ edit | edit code ]
Following the Tito-Stalin split in 1948, the Communist Party of Greece lead by Nikos Zahariadis took the side of the Cominform. After the defeat of CPG in the Greek Civil War in August 1949, a hunt for Titoist spies began in the midst of Greek political immigrants - Greek-speaking and Bulgarian-speaking civil war refugees, living in socialist countries in Eastern Europe (often coming there after a brief stay in the so called “Tito's traitorous fascist Yugoslavia". In 1952, Zachariadis initiated the creation of a special political organization for "Slavic-Macedonian" emigrants in Eastern Europe, which would promote the building of a Macedonian national identity, based on anti-Yugoslav sentiments. The organization was called "Ilinden” , in an effort to show continuity with the recent history of the Bulgarian people of the region of Macedonia. Ilinden was based in Bucharest and was headed by Pando Voynov /with Stavro Kochev providing support as well/. Under his leadership, the organization also held cultural activities within the Macedonian Department of CPG’s publishing house in Bucharest, Nea Hellas . Sections for "studying Macedonian folklore and language" were created. This was a decisive step to create a non-Yugoslav parallel literary language for use in the Aegean emigrants community in the early 1950s.
By the end of 1949, Yugoslavian Macedonian schools established in Eastern European countries tried to use the language of Yugoslavian Macedonia, which was still in the process of standardization, using mostly the first "Macedonian Grammar" by Krume Kepeski from 1946. But from 1950 the teaching of the Skopje literary norm was stopped. According to Risto Kiryazovski, the reason for this was that Macedonian teachers, educated and coming from Yugoslavia, were repressed as Titoist agents. The very leadership of the CPG encouraged the creation of a Macedonian language norm based on the dialects of Aegean Macedonia as opposed to Yugoslavia's heavily serbianized literary norm. This new language engineering was entrusted to Atanas Peikov, who created a grammar and a primer of the language standard, which was much closer to the standard Bulgarian literary language, and was declared to be free of the Serbian influences present in the Skopje literary standard. According to Peykov:
" The following are the main bibliographic sources in the compilation of the grammar: Bulgarian grammar by Dr. Lubomir Andreichin, Nick. Kostov, Enyo Nikolov, Sofia, 1947 and the Grammar of the Russian Language, AS Matiichicho Uchpedgiz, 1952 [2] [3]
"
Atanas Peikov himself came to Romania from Bulgaria, where till 1951 he had worked at the Information Bureau of Elas Press . Between 1952 and 1956, the Macedonian Department of Nea Hellas published a number of issues in this literary standard, officially called " Macedonian language of the Slav Macedonians from Greek or Aegean Macedonia". This linguistic norm, or rather a variant in the process of standardization, was supposed to play the role of a tool for building the identity of the "Slav Macedonians" emigrant communities in Romania, Poland, Czechoslovakia. However, contemporary Skopje historians like Kiryazovsky claim that it was an "artificial language" that they interpret as "a means of stifling Yugoslavian identity". [4]Anthropologist Keith Brown cites a former emigrant from Poland who claims that during this period Greek party leaders encouraged "Macedonians to call themselves Bulgarians" [5] - something that was most likely an incident, since the official position of the CPG at the time was different. Although this "Aegean Macedonian language" legitimized the symbolic importance of the "Macedonian language" and thus facilitated the later spread of the standard Yugoslav Macedonian norm among the Aegean emigrants, it also delayed this process, creating certain reservations towards the Yugoslavian Macedonian standard.
When the relations between the USSR and Yugoslavia warmed in 1956 the CPG dissolved the Ilinden organization, and Zachariadis himself, as a Stalinist, fell out of favor. According to Kiryazovsky, on November 30, 1956, some members of Ilinden also demanded the use of the Macedonian language from Yugoslav Macedonia among the Aegean emigration in Eastern Europe outside of Yugoslavia. Initially, the CPG leaders did not respond. The issue was finally resolved on August 4-5, 1957 in the Polish town of Bardo at a meeting attended by 35 "Macedonian" and Greek teachers, the former leader of the Democratic Army of Greece and a member of the CPG Central Committee, General Marcos Vafiadis ,the Polish Minister of education and the former Ilinden chairman Pando Voynov. The dispute over the language ended with the defeat of Atanas Peikov's group, who insisted that the Macedonian language was almost identical to the Bulgarian language. This was also the end of anti-Titoist propaganda among Aegean emigrants in Eastern Europe. However, newspapers such as the People's Struggle (1950-1977) continued to use the Aegean norm.
Contrary to the claims of Kiryazovski and Kiselinovski [6] , there was nothing to suggest that there was resistance against the Aegean Macedonian norm of Peikov among the Aegean emigrants in Eastern Europe. Likewise, Christian Fosse claims that his interviews with Aegean emigrants and their former leaders showed no discontentment with the norm. [7] There were requests from Australian Aegean-Macedonian Communist emigrants from the 1950s who wanted literature in this language because they did not understand the New Macedonia newspaper and other materials sent to them from Yugoslavia. Moreover, most of the children trained in this norm subsequently encountered serious difficulties in mastering the Skopje norm and practically could not use it fully. [8]Christian Fos believes that it is not accidental that Aegeans such as Stoyan Kiselinovski and Dimitar Dimitrov try to reinterpret the role of Blazhe Koneski in the history of the Macedonian language and even challenge the current Macedonian language standard. This also seems to justify the arguments still being raised today to recodify and reform Skopje's spelling and linguistic norm.





кажи му северномакедонец вместо да го обиждаш

Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: tormentor]  
Автор jingiby (АнТИКВИзатор)
Публикувано30.12.19 07:20



Написал съм нещо вече в статията за мекедонския език на английската Уикипедия. Благодаря за превода ще го имам предвид.





Тема Re: Харта за македонския езикнови [re: jingiby]  
Автор tuzlija-179435 (стар вълк)
Публикувано30.12.19 07:36



Харен подпис отдолу:
"Баба Югослава умре"...




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